Tu es sûr que c’est une référence à la mort de Cloclo ? Parce que j’ai bien une référence au chanteur, mais c’est sur une de ses chansons.
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Relu le premier tome grâce à vous et c’est toujours aussi kiffant.
Avant que l’année se termine, j’avais eu le temps de lire et finir le tome 2 (on ne sait jamais, si des fois nous étions envahis le lendemain matin, surtout que je m’étais rapproché des States).
Du tout bon, évidemment, avec un Ellis s’amuse en revisitant les concepts de vilains, en allant vraiment dans l’absurde et le ridicule. Même dans la création des équipes, d’ailleurs. C’est plutôt fendard et je trouve que la VF joue bien le jeu (en tout cas, je ne suis pas en position de comparer, mais ce que je lis est bien fun).
Et dans ce tome, il joue même avec les formes de la BD. Rien de très novateur, mais l’ensemble apporte vraiment un plus et une différenciation par rapport au tome 1. Et puis y a deux ou trois répliques qui se moque un peu de Marvel, lui inclus, puisqu’il fera aussi les UFF et les Thunderbolts.
Bref, je viens de le rebalayer et c’est une vraiment une série qui peut se relire facilement et inlassablement.
(et puis Immonen envoie du bois et joue aussi avec les styles)
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Eh eh eh … ouais.
En effet.
Stuart Immonen à propos de Nextwave (entre autres) :
Nextwave illustrations, Marvel Comics, 2010
You and Warren Ellis clearly got along somewhat because after Ultimate X-Men , you two made Nextwave . Or did you get along?
Warren and I to this day have never spoken, and in the last fifteen years have only exchanged a handful of emails, so there’s virtually no sample size from which to say we get along or don’t.
It’s true I was irritated at how Ultimate Fantastic Four ended, and when Nick called to ask if I was interested in Nextwave , I had serious reservations. The convincing factors were that Warren had already written the first few scripts – on spec, I believe – and that they were brilliant. I also got on so well with Nick that I knew he would have my back if it went sideways.
What were your thoughts and conversations with Warren like early on, especially as they relate to the style and the tone of the book?
Well, this is the thing. There was no discussion. At first, I reached out whenever something was not 100% clear for me, and the response was always, « do whatever you want. » So I stopped asking. And in fact, this proved to be such an amenable way of working, I used it as a template for collaboration going forward. Compared to working with writers who want to argue over polishing mushrooms, or who telephone from the bathroom because they have a few minutes to spare, this was an unfettered pleasure.
The average layperson doesn’t understand the collaborative process in comics well at all; in most cases, it works best when there’s some latitude for decision-making all down the line, at least, when everybody’s being professional and working to capacity. Trying to exert total control benefits no one and hampers creativity. I had had the impression that Warren was a very hands-on writer, but in my experience, it was strictly arm’s length which ended up suiting me very well.
So all my conversations were with Nick, who basically supported every decision I made. There were a couple of missteps on my part early on, as I misread Tabby and Elsa’s personalities, but once we sorted that out, the watchword was anything goes. Nick and Warren both liked the anime FLCL as an influence, but I tried to watch it and didn’t get it at all, so I just struck out on my own, refining the stylistic ideas I’d been using on the Ultimate titles. I think Kathryn and I were also doing Never As Bad As You Think around 2005-2006, which was possibly more cartoony and silly so in a way Nextwave seemed comparatively conventional.
The book was funny and over the top and you used a cartoony style for it, but for a book like that, are you thinking about how it’s supposed to be funny? Or is that more about the choices you make at the beginning and after that your role is more about the storytelling and less what it means?
Well there’s no comedy « set it and forget it » button. Yes, you can improve your chances by, say, designing a spaceship that’s four submarines lashed together, or parodying a familiar costume or giving someone an absurd haircut, but sustained humour is 99% in the execution. There are conventions of comedic storytelling that an audience will recognize and respond to, just as there are conventions for romance or horror or any other genre. Look at Kirby’s Dingbats of Danger Street and compare it to Young Romance and to Fantastic Four; they’re all clearly one person’s work, filtered through his vision, but still all different in approach. Not in the construction of the drawings themselves so much (though they were obviously created during different periods of his career), but in pacing, composition, expression, exaggeration and so on. A clown can be terrifying, this is a well-known fact.
From Nextwave #10, Marvel Comics, 2010
Whose idea was that in Issue #10 as the characters are hallucinating and sent into these weird universes that you would draw each in a different style? And how did you decide how you wanted each to look?
Ah, that was Nick. It wasn’t in the script, and to my shame, I didn’t think of it myself. I picked four – was it four? – that I thought would look different from each other and different from « my » drawings, but in retrospect, I could have put a lot more thought into it and maybe made more diverse choices. I’m not sure how successful it was as a set of faithful homages – even the Elsa Bloodstone Hellboy bit was pretty weak Mignola tea – but it served the purpose of the gag.
There was a Legion story from 1999 which Paul Levitz wrote, I pencilled, and George Freeman inked which was a similar idea; a number of « bedtime stories » with different characters and different looks. I had certain illustrators or genre or period styles in mind when drawing, but I didn’t communicate those to George, who did his own thing on top. I liked the result pretty well, but I think the original intent got diluted somewhat. Again however, latitude for creativity makes for happy collaborating.
From Nextwave #11, Marvel Comics, 2010
Half of Issue #11 was six two page spreads, which essentially can be laid back to back. For something like that, what did Ellis write and how do you go about drawing it. Because it looks and reads incredibly – but I’m sure it was a pain to actually do
I don’t recall exactly what the script asked for. I think Warren had a list of bizarre character suggestions which Nick augmented with his own ideas, and then there were oddball Marvel characters we were permitted to use as well. I don’t remember if the videogame side-scrolling aspect was specifically asked for, but a long, stupid, fight-y Bayeux Tapestry was basically the idea. There wasn’t a whole lot to the script except the callout captions and the lists, as I recall.
I know that the work that people enjoy reading isn’t always fun to make, but you really seemed to enjoy the bizarre aspects of the book. Was it fun to make the book?
Definitely. It was at the heart of a really fertile period for me, and, while I’d probably do a bunch of things differently given the chance, it was actually very satisfying in almost every respect, which is something I’ve not quite experienced since in my mainstream work.
Thank you. Mostly, it was just me goofing around with color and texture and Photoshop layers. After the first issue, I think Nick asked for each issue to highlight a certain character, but otherwise didn’t provide much concrete direction. It was pretty remarkable to be permitted to design a new logo every issue, and to try out effects and palettes as whim dictated. The only constant was a 3:2 ratio of top to bottom sections, which got put aside for issue 11, the Civil War parody, which was instead plit 50/50. I was irritated well out of proportion to the ask, and ultimately, I was wrong, because of course it was funnier. The Black Watch tartan which replaced the Civil War black background may have been Nick’s idea, or he suggested it not be black and left it to me.
A similar but opposite thing happened with the covers for Secret Identity – I hated the comicbook Superman logo in the color block behind the lowercase sans serif « secret identity » and made the block on the last issue black to thwart its use. I mean, I get it – you gotta sell books, but even at the time there were numerous exceptions – Superman For All Seasons , Superman: Red Son . I still hate it, actually.
So why did the series end at issue #12?
The usual reasons, I guess. I mean, whatever publishing algorithm was in use at the time didn’t project future sales meeting expectations. Also, I don’t really know Warren, but from the outside, it seems like he’s a serial comics monogamist, throwing himself behind whatever’s interesting at the time, and then moving on, which I respect.
Twelve is a good number, I think. It makes a satisfying chunk of a collection that is perennially accessible. Nextwave is a good-looking corpse that died young.
Is there any chance of you and Ellis working together again?
The whole interview just landed on the head of a pin, didn’t it? Four or five years ago, Nick, Warren and I batted something around as a one-off. I think I suggested an idea about Aaron Stack being a trojan for H.A.T.E. which the others liked OK, but we couldn’t coordinate schedules so it fell apart. Then, just last year, Nick floated a possible reunion for Marvel’s 80th I think, but again it went nowhere. All parties have really moved on at this point. I don’t even think working on an entirely different project would happen now.
When I ask if you “got along”, I’m not asking, did you hang out and talk on the phone a lot. When people work together on multiple projects, the assumption is that you work together well – or work in a way that’s compatible. Which usually means there was no micromanagement and a lot of trust. I’m sure anyone can point to exceptions in their careers, but I think that’s usually true?
I’m not sure. It definitely works for me. I’m comfortable in my wheelhouse and believe I have demonstrated an ability to work to a high standard unsupervised, but I’m not convinced this is the default way to work, even for independent freelancers. Kathryn and I were just talking about the isolation-induced phenomena of increased efficiency that people who are not used to working from home are now experiencing, owing to fewer distractions than in a conventional workplace. The tradeoff of more interruptions when working in a studio or in close collaboration is immediate feedback and social interaction, which – uh, hello, mammals! – most people benefit from. For me, it generally gets in the way of finishing.
On the whole, I’ve worked with more writers who prefer input – asking for anything from favorite characters to use to actual story ideas – than not, and lots of artists want to facilitate that and enjoy it. Some smart ones spin this into writing careers of their own. However, I feel like the job already entails plenty of unpaid and uncredited work—characters, costumes, environments, creatures, props, logos, user interfaces and so on all need designing for example – if I wanted to write as well, I would write. I should stress though, that I don’t think these requests or offers come from a place of laziness or a desire to exploit; I rather think the default collaborative model involves more give and take than I’m willing to participate in. So in this respect, Warren and I got along great.
I know how well – or, to be precise, not well – the book sold. But are you aware of how beloved that book and your work on it is?
Well, I don’t think sales were ever bad, they just didn’t set a fire under the marketplace. A book that sold Nextwave units today would be a keeper, sadly. But more to the point, um, I guess yes? I know the book still has cache and benefits from a lot of word of mouth. « Beloved » is a word that makes me very uncomfortable, however. Sometimes people at conventions will be very enthusiastic in their appreciation, which as a generally asocial person I find slightly alarming, but I smile and nod and thank them and am honestly grateful for it. But half the time, I don’t actually remember what happened in that person’s favorite issue. This sounds terrible, and I admit it as a personal failing, but I’ve also drawn tens of thousands of pages, and it is rare for them not to all run together in my mind, assuming I recall them at all.
As you know, I have had a lot of conversations with comics pros over the years, and many have mentioned you as an artist they admire and Nextwave as a book they cite. And I know lots of readers who loved it when it was being released and to this day. So I’ll argue for beloved. We don’t have to get along to do this interview, Stuart!
No, no, it’s fine. Of course this is very touching, and I take it in the spirit in which it’s offered. I’m seriously grateful to have had the good fortune to have maybe once caught lightning in a bottle. At the same time, after a long career filled with projects that felt more personally significant, I can also say I understand when Alec Guinness said he shrivels inside each time Star Wars is mentioned.
Fair enough.
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Il y en a plein le bouquin. Entre Photon qui explique qu’elle se fait draguer par tout ce qui bougeait chez les vengeurs Big Bang qui raconte une soirée où elle va choper un mec sans le connaître, Machine Man qui mate les décolleté d’Elsa…
Mince alors. Il faut donc remercier Nick Alonso pour toutes les bonnes idées de Nextwave. Ça me semble cohérent.
Bon allez ! Zou ! Vous avez gagné. Je vais me le procurer ce bouquin !
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Enfin une parole sensée
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Ca faisait longtemps que je n’avais pas fait dépenser des sous.
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Méchant tentateur ! Heureusement que t’es pas mon chat ! 
Je n’avais pas remarqué qu’il était resté aussi longtemps - 4 ans quand même - sur les titres Superman ni qu’il était passé sur quasiment l’ensemble des titres majeurs Ultimate. Faudra que je me penche sur ses Ultimate X-men avec Vaughan quand ça sortira en Epic.
Le dessin est mieux que le scénario.
Clin d’œil
Vzughan n ecrit pas les x men mais les nouveaux mutants avec le czsting des x men
Ouais. Je ne sais pas d’ailleurs si je ne préfère pas la période Kirkman, ironiquement.
La montée en puissance d apocalypse est sympa et le traitement de diablo aussi.
Les x men de bishop : aurait pu mieux faire